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Lisa
Member
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# Posted: 8 May 2006 03:44
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This movie was absolutely amazing.I saw it at the Hot Docs film festival in Toronto.It was such an eye-opener.The fact that the latte that I buy from Starbucks affects the farmers in Ethiopia was soo incredibly wrong to me that I literally cannot touch a cup of coffee anymore.I can't just stomach the fact that because I'm supporting the corner Starbucks, someone halfway around the world has to starve for it.Why should I benefit at the expense of someone else????
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marcfrancis
Member
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# Posted: 21 Jul 2006 13:13
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Hi Lisa
I think its important to point out that we don't want in anyway people to stop drinking coffee.
A couple of people after our Q&As said that they will stop drinking coffee now! We told them that would be a disaster, simply because the demand for coffee will decrease - Tadesse's farmers will be in greater trouble than they are already and the other 25 million coffee farmers around the world will all go bankrupt!
Keep drinking your coffee Lisa - enjoy the benefit. Just drink coffee that isn't at the expense of the coffee farmer. Slowly but surely there are more and more companies out there working with their coffee farmers and paying them a decent price - Its up to you to find them so you can drink coffee from people who pay their farmers a decent price - a price that can send their children to school, have access to clean water and feed themselves. - then everyone benefits.
And remember, that you have to ask the right questions - its not enough for companies to sell one fair trade coffee whilst the others are all unfairly traded. The entire business of the company must be based on paying the farmers a fair price - after all it's the farmers who make the coffee corporations rich in the first place.
And finally, don't forget the farmers need the big coffee companies like Starbucks, Nestle , Proctor and Gamble and Kraft to buy their coffee - as much of it as possible- they just need a price that is fair - and you, as a consumer, can change that - if you demand change.
M
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Lisa
Member
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# Posted: 23 Oct 2006 21:37 - Edited by: Lisa
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I still drink coffee....only from Timothy's and Second Cup after I read about their fair trade programs. The Starbucks on campus at school ( Ryerson U) has a fair trade coffee blend, but I still can't drink it!!!
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Steve
Member
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# Posted: 25 Jan 2007 18:20
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consider this:
First, people should quit going to Starbucks mainly because its coffee is not very good. They've become the modern corner soda shop where most of their drinks are more like milkshakes than quality coffee.
Specialty coffee roasters know that Starbucks coffee is over cooked and leans toward being burnt. People in the specialty industry use the term, Charburnt or StarBurnt coffee when referring to this company. The last Consumer Report on the coffee industry stated that Dunkin Donuts coffee beat Starbucks in their coffee tasting comparisons.
The fact is that there is a free market price for green coffee beans and Starbucks doesn't set the price. I just came back from visiting coffee farmers in Central America and met people who were pissed at Starbucks for paying lowball prices and others who were happy as they were paid a premium over market price.
Prices for raw coffee beans from source countries have been increasing steadily in the past year and you'll see Starbucks and others raising their prices to compensate.
The question is, how much are "you" willing to pay to provide third world country farmers more income? $5, $10, $15 a cup? Why is it that the complainers always want someone other than themselves to pay the bill? Starbucks is a public company and a business run by business people and number crunchers looking at the bottom line. It isn't a charity. All increases in cost gets passed on to the consumer. If the prices become too high and consumers start to buy less coffee, Starbucks revenues will fall, the stock price will fall, financing will dry up, stores will close, coffee buying will be cut way back and the African farmers will starve. This is similar to what happens in years when these same countries have a very bad coffee crop. The 2006 year-end financial reports for Starbucks state that they had a 7.25% profit margin, not exactly a gouging number.
On a positive note, what Starbucks did for the industry is elevate coffee to a national pastime which has enabled third-world farmers to increase their production substantially over the past five to ten years or so and create livelihoods for many families who were suffering worse in previous years.
Because of the expansion of coffee drinking, now small boutique roasters and coffee shops all over the US are roasting and serving coffee that is superior to Starbucks and establishing a new gourmet coffee industry. This is helping coffee farmers. Also, most of these smaller roasters buy as much Fair Trade or Rainforest Alliance Certified, etc. coffee that they can sell. One problem is that these certified coffees only make up, something like 5% of the world's coffee production, although it is growing. The other problem is that, being a government subsidy, in many countries the additional money garnered for Fair Trade coffee goes into the pockets of corrupt government officials rather than the poor farmers.
The key downside to Fair Trade coffee is that it often results in sustaining an inferior product which then costs more, not less than other coffees of higher quality. That being said, the main problem with Fair Trade is that, like welfare, it is a government subsidy which perpetuates the production of inferior crops, which makes those farmers less competitive over time. Better strategies would focus on educating and training farmers in superior farm husbandry and improved processing techniques to create a more valuable and higher priced product. Some specialty green beans are currently selling for close to $3.00 a pound, compared to $1.50 for others. That's why some coffees you see on the shelf sell for $10 and others for $15.
Even though I don't like or drink Starbucks coffee, the fact is that they are great marketers who came into a niche market with perfect timing and built up a successful industry that has enabled lots of smaller roasters and coffee shops to sprout up all over the country and, at the same time, helped to elevate international coffee prices by increasing demand.
We could all stop drinking coffee, like some here have and create a disastrous result in coffee growing countries for the people living there. Or, I suggest two options for those who really want to help the local coffee farmers. !) Start to frequent those high quality smaller coffee shops and, 2) buy retail coffee from the boutique roasters who are more socially conscious rather than stop drinking coffee altogether thinking that you are doing something honorable?
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silvergirl
Member
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# Posted: 29 Feb 2008 22:31
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7219458.stm
things are not looking so great in Starbucks land .... could it be beside all the facts in the story that unethical business practice is also having an effect?
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jim2804
Member
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# Posted: 15 Mar 2008 21:23
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I'm a bit torn with Starbucks...am yet to see the movie. I only drink 'cafe Estima' Fairtrade when there, and nearly always give the staff/manager a grilling about the lack of Fairtrade coffee and why they can't switch thier 'base' coffee etc. I think those who go, keep going, only drink Estima, and always 'lobby' the manager/staff. Make them aware you want to keep coming, but you want FT and only choose estima.....
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woodytpc
Member
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# Posted: 18 Mar 2008 15:33
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i think starbucks use propaganda as a tool there are always posters and leaflets in store bout how they help farmers and what good they are doing, they say they pay on averager $1.45 per pound of coffee that sounds low espacialy when some of the farmers that featured on the film cant even afford shoes. i think all coffee companies and coffee drinkers have a responseability to make sure that all farmers a paid properly for they coffee.
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Mousadd
Member
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# Posted: 20 Mar 2008 14:35
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I love coffee and I think that farmers do a good job making yummy coffee. We should let them continue to make coffee. If they dont, then we should send the Sudenese government to bash some heads. Make my coffee now infidel! Haha, silly Ethiopians. If they are not Muslem they should be made into infidel slaves who farm coffee.
This is Gods punishment for being infidels. They shall make no money for coffee until they submit to Allah.
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Billy
Member
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# Posted: 21 Mar 2008 07:28 - Edited by: Billy
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We as human beings are as selfish and shallow than ever before. We are blinded by what the media is telling us, with Starbucks creating this image of high-quality coffee, charging $3 or so dollars for a cup of non-fair trade latte whatever is preposterous when coffee is 99% water. Farmers from under-developed countries definately deserve more than what they make. We have to acknowledge that while we're sipping this coffee, the beans used to make it are harvested by farmers who's only urge to live is to provide their family with decent food, housing, education, and medication. When we reflect on ourselves, we have more than enough to live with.
I love coffee and all, but if I were to buy a cup of over-priced coffee from Starbucks, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I'd rather stick to my conscience.
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Billy
Member
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# Posted: 21 Mar 2008 07:38 - Edited by: Billy
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But ofcourse, I'd be willing to pay $5 for a cup of Starbucks coffee if most of that profit directly goes back to the farmers. On the otherhand, I should start buying fair trade coffee and other fair trade products, and convince my Starbucks-loving teacher to do so as well.
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Marie
Member
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# Posted: 13 Jun 2008 23:09
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Coming from Seattle and having watched the coffee scene play-out in several directions for the last 20 years - I decided to switch to tea. Starbucks bought out the little privately owned businesses and any other shop they could monopolize. Starbucks is part of the World Trade Order, which was protested here in Seattle in 1999. (See the upcoming film by Stewart Townsend, "Battle in Seattle" in September 2008.)
There are not only political ramifications for the choices the public makes. You all would be surprised to know how many coffee-drinkers suffer in major degrees with fiber myalgia and arthritis... And at a very young age! Ever wonder why it hurts, suddenly, to move things like your fingers, toes, and relax your jaw? Many people's bodies simply cannot manage the adrenaline rushes these super-coffees (or any coffees) create... Also resulting in all kinds of facial and breast tumors, as well as prostrate. What I am saying is, the stuff may be "yummy" but it's poison.
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mikeloyst
Member
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# Posted: 25 Aug 2008 23:44
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I am a starbucks employee and after watching this film, i felt sick to my stomach, it made me want to leave starbucks. Before i did that though, i did some more reasearch, and found out that ONE, starbucks only makes up 3% of the world coffee buying market, yes, 3%. 3% is nothing compared to "The big four" or Kraft, Nestle, Proctor & Gamble and Sarah Lee. They purchase almost HALF of the worlds coffee, which makes starbucks's little 3 percent look like nothing. I decided to ask questions within my own company too. Starbucks offers a forum site for their employes to sare their thoughts on how to change things for the better, this ensures that corporate and the retail staff are on the same level. Outraged after seeing Black Gold, i started a thread asking for answers, and later i got a reply from an executive within the Global responsibility department at starbucks. She had this to say:
Dear Michael,
I've seen Black Gold a few times; participated in post screening panel discussions; and even had a chance to meet with the directors.
The film was beautifully shot and extremely emotional. I felt it did a great job telling the story of poverty in the developing world. But, unfortunately, the film missed the mark in a few areas.
First, poverty in Ethiopia is much larger than the coffee industry. In fact, it is primarly caused by the subsidies paid by US and European goverments to US and European farmers. The scenes toward the end of the movie regarding the World Trade Organization (WTO)meetings have nothing to do with coffee, because coffee is not grown in Europe or the US (except small amounts in Hawaii).
The leaders of the developing nations are furious with the WTO, because they are excluded from global trade meetings. They want the US and Europe to stop paying subsidies to US and European farmers. These subsidies allow farmers to flood the market with cheap products. Cotton is the perfect example. African cotton farmers can't compete with US and European cotton farmers. African cotton farmers are not subsidized so they charge higher prices for their cotton in the global market place just to make a living.
The US and European governments made a deal with the African governments that they would provide aid such as food if they do not give subsidies to their farmers. Therefore, the African farmers can not be competive in global trade. Hence the motto "Trade not Aid" from poverty alleviation activists. Does that make sense? So the film makers should have focused on cotton instead of coffee. Coffee doesn't make sense in the WTO scenerio.
Now, back to coffee...the film makers wanted to make a provocative, controversial movie so they lumped Starbucks in with the Big Four coffee buyers. The film gets more publicity flashing our logo instead of Kraft, Nestle, Proctor & Gamble and Sarah Lee (the Big Four). These four companies purchase more than half of the world's coffee production while Starbucks purchases about 3%.
Starbucks buys very little coffee from Ethiopia so our impact is pretty small. AND we have been buying coffee from Tadesse Meskela for more than five years! Tadesse manages a Fair Trade cooperative so all the coffee we have bought from his coop has been at the certified Fair Trade price. If his coffee farmers are making pennies on the pound, the more appropriate question is how much money is the coop management keeping for themselves? This is a popular misconception of Fair Trade that the farmer gets the Fair Trade price. Nope....the coopertive gets it and pays the farmers.
Last year, Starbucks paid an average of $1.43 per pound for ALL its coffee. The Fair Trade price was $1.26 per pound last year. Also, Starbucks is in the process of opening a Farmer Support Center in Ethiopia to assist farmers to grow higher quality coffee so they can demand better prices.
I recommend taking a look at C.A.F.E. Practices which are Starbucks guidelines for purchasing coffee. starbucks.com/csr
Sorry this is such a long comment, but the subject is extremely complex, and I feel the film makers did a disservice to the coffee farmers by simplifying it.
The specialty coffee industry has always paid above market prices because of the quality it demands. The film makers would have been more accurate if they focused on the commercial coffee industry which purchases their coffee on the commodity market. Starbucks does not purchase coffee on the commodity market....the Big Four do.
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everett
Member
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# Posted: 24 Feb 2009 15:55
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Starbucks kills people to make their coffee
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cristina pastor
Member
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# Posted: 30 Jul 2009 01:26
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Hy everyone,
I have to agree with Steve above and to reinforce: Starbucks is not coffee, not coffee proper as the rest of the world know it , is some kind of lukewarm shakes.
Sorry for those who are missing out on real coffee and its flavours that comes in small cups and not in huge mugs.
On the movie side, it was painful to watch and the first reaction is that you want to donate smth for the starving children out there, but in the end a real friend gives a fishing rod and not a fish to his fellow friend, right? so yeah I agree that trade is the root of poverty and Africa should be helped more in this sense so that aid would not be needed that much and they can be self sufficient or at least gradually.
thanks.
and yeah dont stop drinking coffee
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